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You are in... Forums > Welcome To Your Horse Forum > Tracing/Stolen Horses > PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

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appycob

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 3477

appycob says:

PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

I feel the law on passports needs to be changed. Many of you will have read my post Tracing Sirius, as you will have read he is still registered to me, even though he was sold 13 months ago. When buying a new horse, the old owner signs a declaration, signing the passport over to the new owner, who then has 30 days to notify the relevant passporting organisation of change of details. I am becoming increasingly aware that I am not the only one whose old horse/pony is still registered to them. The penalty for not having a passport is upto a £5000 fine and/or 6 months in jail. I feel that the passport should be changed to a similar system as the Vehicle Registration Document, whereby, the old owner will fill in part of the slip, and return that themselves to the relevant passport organisation, the new owner has the 30 days to send their part in and if they fail to do so, then they should be fined pro rata on how late the form is sent in. This would encourage more owners to get the forms sent. When I bought my new horse I couldn't insure him, until my passport was returned to me as proof of ownership and his identity. Also, my horse was issued with his passport at Llanybydder Horse Sales, by The Veteran Horse Society, the day before his sale, surely at 10 months old, he should have already been passported prior to being registered for the sale. How many stolen horses end up at sales like this, to be issued with new passports before being sold to unsuspecting new owners.I feel this is something that DEFRA urgently needs to look at.

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" you'll never walk alone; I'll always walk besides you " TESS " In my heart there'll always be a place for you for all my life; I'll keep a part of you with me, and everywhere I am there you'll be"

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appaloosa85wd

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 34

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

 YES I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS TOPIC ON PASSPORTS!!! I THINK IT SHOULD BE CLAMPED DOWN ON AS I SOLD A HORSE TOO ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO AND SHE IS STILL REGISTERED IN MY NAME AND HER FREEZEMARKED DETAILS ARE STILL IN MY NAME SO THIS ALSO NEEDS LOOKING AT BECAUSE IF ANY THING WAS TO HAPPEN I WOULD BE ME WHO IS CONTACTED (THEN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN) THERE SHOULD BE A SLIP ON THE PASSPORT WHICH THE SELLER GETS TO SEND OFF TO CHANGE OWNERSHIP LIKE WITH A CAR THEY SHOULD WORK THE SAME.  I THINK THIS TOPIC SHOULD BE RESEARCHED AND PLACED IN A FUTURE MAGAZINE FOR ALL HORSE OWNERS TO BE MADE MORE AWARE HOW IMPORT THE EQUINE PASSPORT IS PEOPLE WHO DONT CHANGE THEM COMES ACROSS AS EITHER TO LAZY TO TAKE THE TIME TO CHANGE A FEW DETAILS OF HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE, AND THIS NEEDS LOOKING AT.

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Divasmum

Joined:

Sep 08

Posts: 1853

Divasmum says:

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

What do you do if you buy a horse with a foreign passport? Does the passport have to go back to the country where it was issued?

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appycob

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 3477

appycob says:

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

Hi, I'm really not sure what would apply for importing a horse, I'd contact the relevant British Breed Society for your horse, also contact DEFRA on  www.defra.gov.uk   or   tel :  08459 335577

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" you'll never walk alone; I'll always walk besides you " TESS " In my heart there'll always be a place for you for all my life; I'll keep a part of you with me, and everywhere I am there you'll be"

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Endurance Arabians

Joined:

Jun 08

Posts: 2194

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

I agree with you all ref passports i brought a 9 month old foal this time last year the breeder sent off his passport to the Arab horse society the day i payed for him and got my receit which i had to send a copy of to my insurance company Pet plan so i was covered and it was proof of sale, I didn't get my passport from the Arab horse society untill 7 days after his 1st birthday. In all my horses passports it has nothing for me to sign or anything saying i have sold my horse all it has is new owner to sign to say the passport is of the horse sold. So are all breed passportsdiffrent?

Boyfriends come and go but my Arabs are for life

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kirstyndshaky

Joined:

Sep 06

Posts: 2596

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

yeh, mines like that (obv, shaky's an arab, bit of a stupid statement!!) i never realised the old owner had 2 do anything on other breeds, surely it should be a standard procedure 4 all breeds?!?!?

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appycob

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 3477

appycob says:

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

Hi, yes on Sirius's passport with the BSPA, when I sold him, I had to sign declaration with date of sale and then the new owner was supposed to fill in their details and send it off, only they still haven't  so all I know is that he's in the Midlands somewhere!!!!!!!!!! (but still registered to me and his Freezemark papers are still in my name) also when I bought Shadow, his passport is with the VHS, that was signed by breeder with date of sale and I had to send off with my details within 30 days.

I definately think that DEFRA has to update and uphold the policy on passports as I've already stated how many stolen horses are getting issued with passports at the actual sales, why ain't the organisers insisting horses are already passported. I think it's disgusting what the Veteran Horse Society are doing, they want support for older horses, yet they are in effect turning a blind eye to horses going through the sale at Llanybydder, obviously it's extra funds for them to issue the passports 

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" you'll never walk alone; I'll always walk besides you " TESS " In my heart there'll always be a place for you for all my life; I'll keep a part of you with me, and everywhere I am there you'll be"

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Maximum Magic

Joined:

Jun 08

Posts: 1001

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

I must say  that all we had to do with Zak's passport was write John's name in as the new owner!  The space is there and it quite clearly says that's all you have to do!! How bizarre is that? 

Read all about it at http://www.chickensinmykitchen.blogspot.com

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appycob

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 3477

appycob says:

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

following my above post, I emailed DEFRA regarding :

1. having to carry your horse's passport when your horse is off his yard for more than 3 hours and

2. with my above query of change of ownership details.

 

here's my email to them and their reply is in the post below,  at least they're taking notice, which is great

 

Hi,

I have two questions

1: regarding the new legislation for passports when out with your horse for 3 hours or more, would it be cost effective and viable for horse owners to be issued with a card similar to a photo driving licence with their horses brief details, microchip number, passport number and PIO etc, as this is small and easy for owners/riders to carry, fits in a purse or pocket and I'm sure most owners would pay a small fee to obtain one.

2: I feel the law on passports when a pony/horse is sold needs revising. 18 months ago I sold my old pony, he is still registered to me, his passport and freezemark papers haven't been changed. When buying a new horse, the old owner signs a declaration, signing the passport over to the new owner, who then has 30 days to notify the relevant passporting organisation of change of details. I am becoming increasingly aware that I am not the only one whose old horse/pony is still registered to them. The penalty for not having a passport is upto a £5000 fine and/or 6 months in jail. I feel that the passport should be changed to a similar system as the Vehicle Registration Document, whereby, the old owner will fill in part of the slip, and return that themselves to the relevant passport organisation, the new owner has the 30 days to send their part in and if they fail to do so, then they should be fined pro rata on how late the form is sent in. This would encourage more owners to get the forms sent. When I bought my new horse I couldn't insure him, until my passport was returned to me as proof of ownership and his identity. Also, my horse was issued with his passport at Llanybydder Horse Sales, by The Veteran Horse Society, the day before his sale, surely at 6-7 months old, he should have already been passported prior to being registered for the sale. How many stolen horses end up at sales like this, to be issued with new passports before being sold to unsuspecting new owners. I feel this is something that DEFRA urgently needs to look at.


Thank you for your time

Janette David

 

 

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" you'll never walk alone; I'll always walk besides you " TESS " In my heart there'll always be a place for you for all my life; I'll keep a part of you with me, and everywhere I am there you'll be"

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appycob

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 3477

appycob says:

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

DEFRA's reply :

 

Janette,

 

Firstly, my apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

 

1: Under Article 14(1) & (2) of Commission Regulation 504/2008 the competent authority of a Member State may allow the use of a simplified identification document instead of the full passport for movement purposes. This would allow you to move your horse accompanied only by a smart card (your analogy of the photo driving licence is very accurate). We propose to allow the development of such smart cards under the new domestic legislation implementing the above directive. It will down to individual passport-issuing organisations (PIOs) to develop such systems and submit them to Defra for approval before they come into use. It may be worth checking with your PIO to see if they intend to develop such a system.

 

2: We are aware of this issue and are looking into ways we can tighten this up. Your idea certainly has its merits and I shall bring it to the attention of those that shall be assisting us with the guidance to accompany the new legislation to see if it is workable.

 

You mention that you required your passport, as proof of ownership, to insure him. It is a common misconception that the passport is proof of ownership – it is not. We advise all horse owners to ensure that they keep their bill of sale (or some other proof of the transfer of ownership) to prove their ownership of the animal, the passport is a method of association of an animal’s medical record to a particular equine.

 

Hope this answers your questions, once again sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

 

Regards,

 

 

Simon Elliott
Policy Advisor
Equine ID & Zootechnics
DEFRA
 

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" you'll never walk alone; I'll always walk besides you " TESS " In my heart there'll always be a place for you for all my life; I'll keep a part of you with me, and everywhere I am there you'll be"

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k11zzy

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 11

k11zzy says:

Re: PASSPORTS - CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP

Hi! I think this whole passport thing is a waste of time to be honest! If it worked properly or like appycob mentioned about the dvla stlye change of owner would be much better! My mare which I bought last year (granted through the sales out of the ring) hasn't had her passport changed for 9yrs! I've been having a real battle since september last year to get my name put onto her passport because no-one has bothered to sign it when she was sold I'm guessing at the earliest a yearling! I have to go down the solictors route of swearing under oath that I bought my mare out of the ring at the sales as she didn't make the reserve which I can understand to a degree, but what if I had stolen her? It's not really that hard to sit in a room with a solicitor & say that you bought the mare off a mr joe bloggs from cheshire or whatever! bingo passport sent off with letter & away you go! Surley something needs to be done about this??

K11zzy

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