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You are in... Forums > Welcome To Your Horse Forum > The Yard > Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

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cookiecrazy

Joined:

Nov 10

Posts: 1062

cookiecrazy says:

Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

 Hi! Im deciding whether i think horse tricks are ok. My friend has a  palamino quarterhorse who she has taught bowing and rearing on command but this this has caused him to be wilful and unpredictable when ridden but again this can be fine if taught carefully and is used in many horse displays we watch today.

What do other forum users think? 

Merlin<3

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lexipuppy

Joined:

Nov 08

Posts: 199

lexipuppy says:

RE trick training

 i neither agree nor disagree with trick training, i personally think certain movements are plain dangerous to teach, but i taught otto to give me his 'leg' on command as this helped with a few problems i had with the farrier, but i also have the worry that trick trained horses do get confused if they are sold , i had an ex circus pony that would go on his back legs when he was told 'stand' and sat down if someone sneezed, so my concern with trick training is that, if someone teaches a horse to rear on command, then sells it, the horse is then getting disaplined for something it was taught to do........

anyway i'm rambling but yes thats my thoughts 

discuss matters with a stallion, ask a mare nicely, and tell a gelding :)

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Fenris

Joined:

Oct 07

Posts: 565

Fenris says:

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

kevinhiatt said:

they are not a dumb animal its us I think are the dumb ones as they have us as their slaves.


------ End Quote ------

Very true Kevin!!

 

I don;t think we should teach tricks that are, in other circumstances, negative behaviours such as rearing. Picking up a hoof on command for the farrier is one thing, but lashing out with a foreleg or rearing on presentation of a whip (or any other signal for that matter) are potentially foolhardy.

 

As for the Spanish Riding School, it should be remembered that airs above ground are descended from war, where horses were trained to lash out at enemy soldiers. Destriers (medieval warhorses) frequently attacked and killed their grooms!! Therefore, teaching such moves should be left to professionals who know exactly what they are doing, and are prepared for the consequences when something goes wrong.

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classicalequitation

Joined:

Dec 10

Posts: 10

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

 This thread absolutely fascinated me when I saw it and I signed up just so I could reply! 

I do trick training with my two Shetland ponies; my daughters Welsh Section A and my Lippizanner stallion -Escalaba.

 

The Spanish Riding School did not in fact create the Airs Above the Ground for the purpose of war. Renaissance riding, and the time when the airs, piaffe, passage, and lateral work came about- was when French, Austrian, Italian and Portuguese noble men ( aristocrats, the Kings Trainers etc); developed riding horses to becoming a past time, apposed to horses being a prerequisite to war. 

 

It was within the walls of the High Schools (Vienna, School of Versailles, Jerez, Lisbon, and many other lost academies), where the introduction of turning work displayed by horses in the field was transferred over to riding. The idea of horses rearing ( levade, corbette, capriole, pesade etc) was perhaps something for them to demonstrate in front of the Kings and other noble men; they began transferring behaviours and using stimuli to condition horses to respond to cues and instead of manipulating them- creating an Art out of something which is already beautiful. 

 

The only issue with trick training is if their is a lack of consistency, the handler does not understand the correct principles of training horses and the trick is not cued appropriately. 

 

Kind Regards;

Maria. 

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Fenris

Joined:

Oct 07

Posts: 565

Fenris says:

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

classicalequitation said:

 

The Spanish Riding School did not in fact create the Airs Above the Ground for the purpose of war. Renaissance riding, and the time when the airs, piaffe, passage, and lateral work came about- was when French, Austrian, Italian and Portuguese noble men ( aristocrats, the Kings Trainers etc); developed riding horses to becoming a past time, apposed to horses being a prerequisite to war. 


------ End Quote ------

I didn't mean the SRS invented it, just that the root of the moves came from war time, and became more artistic when the knight and heavy cavalry started to die out, or at least as far as I was aware. I am not an expert by any stretch tho, so maybe I was wrong :)

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classicalequitation

Joined:

Dec 10

Posts: 10

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

 No worries, it would take all day to go in depth into the origins of Classical Dressage and it's foundations. 

 

Horses were likely to rear in war out of fear, it was probably reinforced by the cavalry men who use it to aid them, of course- horses nowadays rear in the field through play- but; everything we do is cued, as 'GemmaPsycho' said- we cue all our behaviours in effect. 

 

I don't like the lying down tricks and I am actually not TOO keen on some of the airs ( corbette and capriole due to the tension on the horses hocks); however- if the tricks are done under a diligent mind, someone who can be consistent and knows they aren't going to sell on their horse ( not everyone sells horses on if they get sick/too old etc- my horses are with me for life!) then there should be no issue. 

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Charem

Joined:

Nov 10

Posts: 285

Charem says:

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

I completely disagree with teaching a horse to rear, or 'beg' for a treat. Dangerous and should be left to the professionals.

However something a little fun like bowing I have no problem with and am guilty of teaching my little coloured a couple years ago!! Silly b***er will do anything for a carrot!

 

Attached images:

  1. charlie bow  

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FreeFlame1

Joined:

Dec 10

Posts: 5

FreeFlame1 says:

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

I believe it's always better to have control over a behaviour, if a horse is taught to only perform on command then it will only perform it on that command

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katz

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 704

katz says:

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

classicalequitation said:

 This thread absolutely fascinated me when I saw it and I signed up just so I could reply! 

I do trick training with my two Shetland ponies; my daughters Welsh Section A and my Lippizanner stallion -Escalaba.

 

The Spanish Riding School did not in fact create the Airs Above the Ground for the purpose of war. Renaissance riding, and the time when the airs, piaffe, passage, and lateral work came about- was when French, Austrian, Italian and Portuguese noble men ( aristocrats, the Kings Trainers etc); developed riding horses to becoming a past time, apposed to horses being a prerequisite to war. 

 

It was within the walls of the High Schools (Vienna, School of Versailles, Jerez, Lisbon, and many other lost academies), where the introduction of turning work displayed by horses in the field was transferred over to riding. The idea of horses rearing ( levade, corbette, capriole, pesade etc) was perhaps something for them to demonstrate in front of the Kings and other noble men; they began transferring behaviours and using stimuli to condition horses to respond to cues and instead of manipulating them- creating an Art out of something which is already beautiful. 

 

The only issue with trick training is if their is a lack of consistency, the handler does not understand the correct principles of training horses and the trick is not cued appropriately. 

 

Kind Regards;

Maria. 


------ End Quote ------

Beautifully put!! thankyou 

Kat

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katz

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 704

katz says:

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?


 

As for the Spanish Riding School, it should be remembered that airs above ground are descended from war, where horses were trained to lash out at enemy soldiers. Destriers (medieval warhorses) frequently attacked and killed their grooms!! Therefore, teaching such moves should be left to professionals who know exactly what they are doing, and are prepared for the consequences when something goes wrong.


To be fair i was talking about the current SPANISH SCHOOL OF RIDING and i truly believe that there are none as qualified as them :) 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Kat

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melxvengeance

Joined:

Aug 08

Posts: 2821

Re: Horse tricks? : / hmmm Spoiling horses or harmless fun?

 classical equitation - your response was brilliant, thanks for that. i know very little about the spanish riding school/lippizaner horses etc so i found it very interesting.

 

just a thought Charem - not to have a go or anything, but just a random thought - could teaching your horse to bow not be considered as dangerous too? what if a child was to ride the horse and the horse decided to just bow, to get out of doing the work? i think all tricks could become dangerous if the horse decided to use it against you. i think it is unfair to mark one trick down as dangerous, but practice others.

Norwegian Fjords - the golden horses with the golden hearts. Minty, Loki, Teiko, Willow, Cherry & Charlie - my lovely ponies :)

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