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You are in... Forums > Welcome To Your Horse Forum > The Yard > Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

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GemmaPsycho

Joined:

Jan 10

Posts: 219

GemmaPsycho says:

Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

I use join up and find it really helps get results in whatever discipline you want you and your horse to do , its based on behaviour shown by a mare to her foals to set boundaries and gain respect . Now I know alot of people claim it doesn't make sense and is 'cruel', but people have got to remember they are not humans and don't think like us , and when you do join up they dont end up 'resenting' you . If anyone who study's horse pscyhology will undersdtand where I am coming from ,its used with their nature to be in a herd its in their instincts and people can't change that , if your horse see's you as the lead horse then he will actually seek to be with you more as he will see you as a suitable confident leader and will find comfort in that , after all  when you horse is scared of something they are more likely to face that fear with you than someone they dont have a relationship . I know people say how they want an equal partnership with their horse and doing join up doesnt allow that , but its the horses language so i just get annoyed when people knock it too quickly , its not cruel or unfair, its what they know. At the end of the day it helped Psycho coem from where he was , he used to have no respect for anyone and was dangerous  , i didnt beat him out of it liek some people I know would do :( I did join up and he is a lovely horse now because he's accepted me as the alpha ( i wont say dominant cause people will have a go at me for using that word *eyeroll* even though that is the correct term hieracrhy wise ) , I would rather he was safe to be around and I was a fair leader than he was 'top'  and just attacked everyone like he used to , he had no trust and the best way to gain trust is to become part of the herd. I get that people dont want to use it and each to their own obviosly ! I just ahte people claiming its cruel and makes no sense . !

What do you all think of join up ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7dntKNwfTc   <-------- video="" of="" me="" &="" psycho="" doing="" join="" up="" yesterday="" :/="" feel="" free="" to="" comment="" on="" it="" bad="" or="">

Psycho~The little Arab who wasn't so bad after all ")

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pippixox

Joined:

Apr 08

Posts: 1287

pippixox says:

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

i personally havnt used join up specifically, but the idea of you being the dominant one but still your horses friend i think is the rite idea. i personally think its wrong to think that you are the same equal partnership with your horse. you can be its friend and get enjoyment from each other, but at the end of the day you are the leader. horse liketo have a clear hieracy anyway, and we would never have tamed them and got on their backs if we didnt do this. i think people should undertake it carefully with an expirienced persons advice though so they dont accidently send out confusing signels to there horse.

my horses are my medicine, without them im even more crazy!

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abbieandfiona

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5011

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

Fi & Smartass said:

 Oh yes forgot to add, just another little random thought of mine... If people view join up where a horse is turned loose and sent away through the use of body language and throwing the end of a line at them (correct me if I'm wrong but this line should never make contact with the horse right?) as cruel then what is their view of lunging where a horse is sent away using a whip (which yes also shouldn't touch them but does make rather an unpleasant cracking sound) whilst they have a lunge line attached to their head with the handler holding the other end? Surely at least in join up the horse should feel slightly less restricted as, having no line attached to their head they at least have the illusion of freedom? This is just a random little thought that pops into my head when I see people calling join up cruel, I personally do not view either lunging or join up as being cruel if practised correctly


Well actual real Join up she should never use a line - when fi did it with adam he used his hands just by moving his arm did the trick. Same at kelly marks demo i took fi to. When i do it i never use line or anything like that x

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Fi & Smartass

Joined:

Jan 09

Posts: 2362

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

 Ok Abbie sorry bout that, said I was no expert you have now enlightened me :)

Correction does much for the horse, but encouragement does more - Unknown

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Penthius

Joined:

Aug 10

Posts: 8

Penthius says:

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

 horse liketo have a clear hieracy anyway, and we would never have tamed them and got on their backs if we didnt do this. i think people should undertake it carefully with an expirienced persons advice though so they dont accidently send out confusing signels to there horse.

Actually they don't.  If you read articles by Lucy Rees and Martha Kiley-Worthington, who have studied this,  you'll see that there ISN'T a linear hierarchy in a herd situation.  Some horses will be more assertive than others, that's their personality, but as a prey animals they have to take care of each other and look out for each other.  The idea that there's a 'boss' in the herd is wrong, there might be bullies who will get all rambo and throw their weight around but they won't be the ones that the other horses follow. 

You can't send a horse away and dominate a horse and still have them as your friend.  It just doesn't work like that.  You have to be able to trust each other, sometimes the horse has to do what you ask of him but other times you will need to rely on him.  It's not about one telling the other what to do as that then gives the subordinate absolutely no say in the relationship at all.

As I said before, Join Up does work, but you need to know how it works and why it works and what the consequences are.  I would prefer my horse to want to be with me than be with me because I've dominated him into sticking around me as I've made him feel like he has no other option.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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abbieandfiona

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5011

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

Fi & Smartass said:

 Ok Abbie sorry bout that, said I was no expert you have now enlightened me :)


------ End Quote ------

Lol thats ok this is what i mean if people mess around with it and copy ideas its done wrong x

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Chimp

Joined:

Oct 09

Posts: 592

Chimp says:

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

I've used on Sir, it was very useful.

Paddy also did it with him, also useful.

In my opinion it is a useful tool/technique, but needs to be used in the right context and in the correct manner.

 

It is not a magic wand, neither is any of the equipment used. Sometimes it suites people and sometimes it doesn't

Consistancy is definately the key. I've always done things the way Monty Roberts and Kelly Marks do things and it works for me. Wether its my horse or someone elses wether I am working the horse or just in the field  with them. That's just the way I do things it works for me.

Does not mean that everyone else is wrong, I think that the important thing is, that beating and bashing and terrorizing an animal into submission is wrong, be it physically or otherwise.

I could see my horse coming to understand that, he had definately been beaten, whips, hoses, fists lots of shouting and yanking. You have to show them the way to go without drama and wait for them to understand

It does work but it takes an awful lot of patience and work to undo the damage. I have been told that the horse was mad and dangerous. He's not and never was. He had just been treated in the wrong way.

He seems to be absolutey fine and is being ridden by teenage girls going to shows and having fun.

So how mad and dangerous is he now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

So I love it!

 

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colsue6com

Joined:

Oct 11

Posts: 1

colsue6com says:

Re: Join Up ? Love it , Hate it ?

Hi. Ive done Join up tonight on my pony and it was fantastic, i nearly cried, my pony coming to me and following me, it truly was wonderful. I bought this pony 6 weeks ago, he is 14;2  6yrs  irish draught/gyspy cob. I bought him from a girl, a novice, she told me everything he had done with her and why she had to sell him. He just bolts when being lead or ridden, for no reasons at all!!! She bought him from a man, that said he has done abit of everything, riding, driving and riding for disabled. My pony is terrified of men (wonder why).

Anyhow ive had the bolting when being taken to and from the field. When i ride him, he is very good, but does try and spook at silly things and then try's and bolts off, but on top im stronger to keep his head in, hence he hasnt bolted with me when being ridden, but that dosent stop him keep trying.

I just want to get his trust and basically start afresh with him, i honestly think he done much more driving and not much ridden, he is so strong and totally leans on the bit. He is ridden in a snaffle, ive gone through the bits, so i know this is the one.

Something nasty has happened i think, in driving. I tried long reining the other day and he just bolted, so frightened. So hence ive done the Join Up tonite, but what i want to know is how many times do you do this and whats next. Or do i just do this and then carry on with what i think next with his problems. Any info on what other people have done will be great. But the join up was fantastic and really worked with him.

 

 

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